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Offline ALEXZIQ

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I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« on: June 14, 2009, 01:23:15 AM »
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Okay Vulcan being destroyed was not cool.

It changes the whole universe. It essentially tells us that everything from the origional series through Next Gen may not happen the way we know it to be.

To me this is like what COIE did to the DCU but somehow it seems worse, at least to me. I know they say it's an alternate timeline, but how? when time changed in COIE for DC it was the whole universe it wasn't just an anomaly. Unless JJ comes out and states this is a seperate Trek Universe, I gotta say" thumbs down" to this film.

To me this movie crushed the last 20 years of Trek for me. I dont know that I will be interested in Trek if Next Gen has been severly altered by these events. I liked the movie, but it's repercusions are unvorgivable. Vulcan is essential to the origional series as well as Next Gen, without it, it's simply not Trek. I'm shocked Trekkers, and Trekkies are so desperate for Trek that they are okay with this.

Thumbs down, I guess I must be in the minority of broken hearted Trek fans.

I have a lot of crow to eat for all th DC fans that were crushed by COIE back in 85


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Offline jlg6184

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 06:18:33 AM »
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Okay Vulcan being destroyed was not cool.

It changes the whole universe. It essentially tells us that everything from the origional series through Next Gen may not happen the way we know it to be.

To me this is like what COIE did to the DCU but somehow it seems worse, at least to me. I know they say it's an alternate timeline, but how? when time changed in COIE for DC it was the whole universe it wasn't just an anomaly. Unless JJ comes out and states this is a seperate Trek Universe, I gotta say" thumbs down" to this film.

To me this movie crushed the last 20 years of Trek for me. I dont know that I will be interested in Trek if Next Gen has been severly altered by these events. I liked the movie, but it's repercusions are unvorgivable. Vulcan is essential to the origional series as well as Next Gen, without it, it's simply not Trek. I'm shocked Trekkers, and Trekkies are so desperate for Trek that they are okay with this.

Thumbs down, I guess I must be in the minority of broken hearted Trek fans.

I have a lot of crow to eat for all th DC fans that were crushed by COIE back in 85

Alright, you are entitled to your own opinion, and I can see where you are coming from, but what they attempted here was not to nullify everything in the start trek franchise (except the 2001 series 'Enterprise'--Which you should be happy to know still happened, even in the new timeline ;)), but to create an alternate timeline, that doesn't interfere with the current known reality. Now, while I love theory just as much as the next guy, I also thought this was cheap, but I loved the movie. Thought in many ways it was better than the original (blasphemy, I know). I think my problem with it is that it tries to say ' Old fans---your universe still exists, new fans---this is  your Star Trek universe '


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Offline ALEXZIQ

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 10:00:19 AM »
The problem is I dont see anything that confirms that the old universe still exists. If you go back in time the future is changed, it doesnt just automatically create another universe. So the origional Spock just happens to live out his remaining years in an alternate reality without any explanation how that is possible?

I could care less about that show Enterprise, it's Next Gen, DS9, Voyager and the old show that this film essentially pizzed away.


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Offline jlg6184

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 10:14:36 AM »
The problem is I dont see anything that confirms that the old universe still exists. If you go back in time the future is changed, it doesnt just automatically create another universe. So the origional Spock just happens to live out his remaining years in an alternate reality without any explanation how that is possible?

I could care less about that show Enterprise, it's Next Gen, DS9, Voyager and the old show that this film essentially pizzed away.

Well it just depends on how you look at it, I mean, there are two ways Hollywood handles time travel. 1.) if something changes the past, it destroys the current realitt (as it was known) and it replaces the original --IE watch Stargate: Continuum or SG1: Season 8's Moebius Part 1 and 2 (last 2 episodes of that season). The second one, which is rare, is that the theory is the original timeline continues as it was intended, but when the event happens that causes the rift in time, it creates and entirely separate timeline (alternate reality). But with the way the show happens and the timeline it follows, the destruction of Romulus happens after TNG, DS9, and Voyager...So it is understandable that the previous television shows would have to play out before this could have happened anyway...

But I do understand how one could be upset, because they didn't actually present it clearly as an ALTERNATE TIMELINE...which is what it is supposed to be.

Also, lastly the Enterprise comment was supposed to be humorous...;)


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Offline ALEXZIQ

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 11:14:43 AM »
It just makes time travel have no point, if you cant effectively alter the future. No one would ever fear a time traveling villian if there are no repercusions. I mean come on, Nero shows up in the past, and poof trillions of lives are created by his actions. Plus it defeats his whole point if his actions dont have any ramifications in the present. He wants to save Romulus but nothing he will ever do will save it in the future because he has created an alternate Universe, and not changed his own reality.


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Offline jlg6184

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 07:32:26 PM »
I understand mate, it is a stupid way to try to do it (as they were trying to not step on fans toes by stating the other reality still exists)...But anyway, another way you could look at it, as now Capt Kirk doesn't have to die in a far-fetched "Generations" movie to pass the torch...And to think, they didn't want to bring him back because it would be "too cheesy"....


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Offline Beardicus

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 08:33:02 PM »
I know this is the least intelligent post in this thread but I thought that the time travel bit was stupid...Im not a trekkie but it seems like they went out of their way to create a new Star Trek for a new generation of fans  ::)

Offline jlg6184

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 12:33:41 PM »
I know this is the least intelligent post in this thread but I thought that the time travel bit was stupid...Im not a trekkie but it seems like they went out of their way to create a new Star Trek for a new generation of fans  ::)

Nah, not least intelligent, it was direct to the point though, but honestly how else could it have been done to re-invent Star Trek, based on old characters? I mean, if they would have for instance made a new Star Trek movie, with all new characters, well that would have likely bombed. And if they would have played it straight, and just remade it in similar fashion to the original, fan boys (IE Trekkies/Trekker) would have been pissed because they screwed up and just made a crappy remake. On paper, discounting the endless theories of alternate realities, or just destroying 20+ years of Star Trek just to make a new movie, it worked. It might have pissed a few people off, but it worked. And like I said previously, in the timeline where Romulus goes kaboom, that takes place after DS9, TNG, Voyager happpened....so it's not like they were like, oh...lets make romulus blow up before Picard takes over the enterprise to really piss off the fans. They did it to make it seem like the events flowed together...And you never know, they may lets say make this a trilogy. And lets say they revisit an old storyline, which would be different because events transpired differently...We'll go  with Wraith of Khan. They could re do that movie, with a totally new twist now....Then to end the trilogy (hypothetically), they could have it set up where they get the chance to nobly fix the original timeline (you know the whole "events get so bad because of the one fluctuation in the space time continuum that the 'new-enterprise' with the assistance of original spock set out to fix the timeline to restore what should have been. I'm just saying that this could go several ways once we have a few movies under our belts...


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Offline ronon

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 11:43:57 AM »
I know this is the least intelligent post in this thread but I thought that the time travel bit was stupid...Im not a trekkie but it seems like they went out of their way to create a new Star Trek for a new generation of fans  ::)

i agree with you there

Offline Smash Brawler

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 03:01:04 PM »
Even if ALEXZIQ has said it:


That can still be a posibility.

Offline ALEXZIQ

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 09:57:15 PM »
Huh?


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Offline Beardicus

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Re: I never thought I'd be this guy (Star Trek Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 08:39:12 PM »
LOL all the multi verse stuff has fried his brain  ;D